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Golf Kentucky Links • View topic - Ball won't stay where marked on green

Ball won't stay where marked on green

Have a question? Maybe someone has the right answer. Or just vent about how you were beat by some obscure ruling that doesn't make sense to you. Maybe someone can explain why!

Ball won't stay where marked on green

Postby BigVMan » Tue Oct 15, 2013 3:43 pm

This happened to me at the Bull Saturday, and I'm not 100% sure of the rule.

Par 3 #14, greatly elevated tee box, probably 70 foot drop or so to the green. About 115 yard tee shot. Tiered green with a pretty significant slope from top level to bottom level running towards the front of the green. Flag is at the front of the green which is the bottom tier. I hit a half wedge sky high, hits the green a few feet past the flag, ball doesn't move. I get down to the green, walk up to my ball, and find my ball still in it's pitch mark...here's the rub...halfway between the top and the bottom of the slope of the tiered green.

So, I mark and pick up my ball, repair the divot, replace my ball...and in no way shape or form will the ball stay where it's marked. I mean, it on the side of a slope, it CAN"T stay where it was once it was lifted and the divot repaired.

With that, I place my ball down where I had it marked, let it go, and putt my birdie putt from where the ball came to rest, which was about 5 feet from the hole. The ball rolled several feet down the slope and came to rest much closer to the hole than it was. Is this the right call? I mean, what else do you do in this situation? The two guys I was playing with didn't know either and figured what else could I do. Now, in this situation it benefited me. Had the flag been on top, the ball would have rolled further from the flag, but luckily this wasn't the case.

By the way, I blew that 5 foot birdie putt. Still had 8-10 inches of right to left break in it and moved significantly once the ball went past the hole.
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Re: Ball won't stay where marked on green

Postby JP » Tue Oct 15, 2013 4:16 pm

Interesting scenario and I could see that happening on that hole. I would say I don't know what is the right call but I do think this: Do not repair the pitch-mark until after you have taken relief and hit your shot. If you do repair the pitch-mark prior to the above, you are subject to a two stroke penalty for a violation of 13-2, creating or eliminating irregularities of surface.
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Re: Ball won't stay where marked on green

Postby thurman » Tue Oct 15, 2013 4:51 pm

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Re: Ball won't stay where marked on green

Postby BigVMan » Tue Oct 15, 2013 5:07 pm

So...if the closest place, no closer to the hole where the ball wouldn't move would have been at the top of the slope, and I don't know that it was, but if that was the case then that's where I should have placed it? In essence severally penalizing me for what was in actuality a very good tee shot? Sorry, I just can't go along with that. Had the ball just jumped out of the divot or rolled out of it a little, it would have very likely been where it ended up after a lifted and replaced it.

I seem to remember seeing this almost exact scenario on tv discussing rules quite some time ago. I thought the ball was placed at it's mark and allowed to roll to it's final resting point, with the point made that if it DID roll in the hole, it had to be taken out, placed on the edge and putted, you couldn't get a hole-in-one out of it.

Any rule that hurts you when you did something well is a bad rule.
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Re: Ball won't stay where marked on green

Postby A-Dub » Tue Oct 15, 2013 7:55 pm

Thurman is correct on the ruling. Closest point the ball will come to rest, no nearer the hole.

JP brings up an interesting point I never would have thought of about leaving the pitch mark there for your ball to rest in. Not sure you would want to do that for how it might come out of the pitch mark or for contacts sake, but I have to believe that would be legal to the best of my knowledge. Just fix it when you are done...
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Re: Ball won't stay where marked on green

Postby thurman » Tue Oct 15, 2013 8:45 pm

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Re: Ball won't stay where marked on green

Postby BigVMan » Wed Oct 16, 2013 11:39 am

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Re: Ball won't stay where marked on green

Postby thurman » Thu Oct 17, 2013 12:14 am

In this situation the rule might have hurt you a bit. But I don’t understand how you can only see it in the context of where the ball rolled after you marked it. The most basic rule of golf is “play it as it lies.” Your tee shot, as it lay, was embedded on a downhill slope. That’s the reference point for the rule, not where it rolled after you marked it. You feel like you’d have been “severely” penalized because you can’t get past the bummer of moving the ball three feet away from the hole instead of 15 feet closer, and you feel like you’d have been “penalized” 18 feet. In reality, you’d have been “penalized” three feet instead of your opponent getting penalized the 15 feet closer to the hole that your ball rolled after marking. If I were playing you for money and your putt had become 15 feet closer and flatter because of a rule that said the ball should be played from where it ends up after marking, I’d have been as angry as you would have been if you had followed the rule correctly. It all just depends on your perspective, but it’s hardly an unfair rule. It’s like most of the rules of golf – it helps in some situations and hurts in others, but it all evens out in the end.
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Re: Ball won't stay where marked on green

Postby A-Dub » Thu Oct 17, 2013 8:29 am

Well, almost every rule in golf that requires relocating the ball states "no closer to the hole." Hit it in a hazard, standing on the cart path, environmental area, unplayable lie, ground under repair, EVERYTHING says you drop it no closer to the hole, so i'm not sure how it is a big shock to the system you would have to set the ball back a few feet.
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Re: Ball won't stay where marked on green

Postby BigVMan » Thu Oct 17, 2013 1:31 pm

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Re: Ball won't stay where marked on green

Postby golfer1155 » Thu Oct 17, 2013 3:27 pm

It would certainly not be illegal. Although I would keep the intention to myself it would not be against the rules.
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Re: Ball won't stay where marked on green

Postby thurman » Thu Oct 17, 2013 3:45 pm

Illegal if done purposefully. Legal if done accidentally. If you had a regular money game, I imagine that's the kind of thing that you'd get your ass kicked over. You'd at least get dropped from your group.

I think you're putting way too much importance on that three feet. You keep calling it "overly penal" and "severely penal," which I just don't understand. Golf is full of bounces and breaks that seem undeservedly crappy. Getting moved three feet further from the hole doesn't even register on the Unlucky Scale in this game. Didn't you watch The Masters?

I myself hit a tee shot yesterday to a front pin on a 220 yard par 3 that hit into a wet false front 10 feet short, plugged for a second, and rolled backwards. It was on a PERFECT line and in drier conditions would have had a real chance of going in the hole, but it didn't go in the hole, and by the definitions of this thread I got an overly penal screwing (that sentence sounds worse out loud than it looks in text). After all, no long iron shot should ever go backwards after landing. I probably should've just written a 1 on the card since that's what I feel like I should have made regardless of what the rules state, but instead I hit the chip to a foot and made my par. Why is it so hard to just suck it up, place the ball where the rules state, and hit that sliding downhill putt close?
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Re: Ball won't stay where marked on green

Postby foreleft » Fri Oct 18, 2013 8:15 am

I understand how you feel. If the ball doesn't plug, you are probably left with an easy birdie put. Chalk it up as the "rub of the green" It has happened to me before too.
I thought the rule was that if you fix the divot and replace the ball and it starts rolling before you address the ball that you play it where it ends up. That being that you can put the ball down and pick up your mark before it starts moving. I guess that would be the trick. But I have had balls move after I had marked and replaced before. Whether it be from wind or slope.
Not raking a bunker.
Littering is wrong too.
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Re: Ball won't stay where marked on green

Postby BigVMan » Fri Oct 18, 2013 11:56 am

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Re: Ball won't stay where marked on green

Postby thurman » Fri Oct 18, 2013 12:48 pm

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